(no subject)

[abigailbrady]

so. i am 29 this year. compared to where i was 10 years ago, i have changed a lot. i am a fully functioning adult human being with a job and a flat and friends and everything. this is good.

i have not ever been in a relationship/dated anyone. as an abstract concept this doesn't particularly upset me. i am, as noted above, a self-sufficient independent person. i can appreciate the argument that having had no relationships is better than having had bad ones. and y'know, if that was the end of the matter i don't think i'd be unhappy. but it's not.

because every so often someone makes the mistake of being nice to me. and i get painfully infatuated. and i then get rejected. and then i feel like shit for a few months, and then it happens again with someone else. i would like this to stop happening. if it could stop happening by someone actually liking me for a change this would be nice. it doesn't seem very likely though, does it?

people tell me they have no idea why people aren't interested in me, but that they are sure it is just coincidence. i don't believe that. there are clearly influencing factors. i am very worried that i'm missing huge chunks of appropriate human behaviour in my socialisation (i ought to have learned all this in my late teens/early 20s, when i was otherwise occupied), and this is just an area of life which will remain forever closed to me. this idea upsets me, because what little of it i have experienced i liked. i would like to have hope, but hope has caused pain.

i am left confused and upset.

so

• what is wrong with me?
  
• are people not interested in me because they assume i am happily single?
  
• are people not interested in me because they assume there must be something wrong with me?
  
• are in fact people interested in me and i am not noticing it? (note: if so please tell me)
  
• should i make effort to meet more new people?
  
• wouldn't it be better just to go and hide?
  
• am i just hanging out in the wrong social circle to meet people who might be interested in me?
  
• given how bad i am at dealing with rejection anyway, wouldn't it be a really terrible idea for me to put myself in a situation with even more potential for that?
  

in conclusion: argh. answers, suggestions and proposals welcome.

Comments

[jojomojo.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I also had bad lack-of-socialisation type issues when I was 24 or so and was convinced I'd never be with anyone ever ever. What worked for me in the end was a) meeting people on the net rather than in person, and b) dating Americans, who tend to go for cute foreign accents. The trouble with b), of course, is one tends to end up with seriously long-distance relationships.

Unfortunately, I'm not really sure I can think of any more specific advice than that :/

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

I've been online enough that I think if this was going to be the answer for me it would have happened already, if that makes sense.

[jojomojo.livejournal.com]

Oh, it does, but I didn't know if you'd specifically tried, for example, dating sites online.

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

I signed up to OKCupid a few years ago, but I find talking about myself to strangers in text to be about the hardest thing I've ever done, so signing up is about as far as I have got. It's worse than writing a CV!

[wildeabandon.livejournal.com]

I think that you're right to assume that it's unlikely to be coincidence, but framing it as "something wrong with you" is neither accurate nor helpful.

I expect the "assuming I'm happily single" thing is probably a big factor. More generally, I think people make the division into "potential romantic partner" and "not a potential romantic partner" very early on in their acquaintenceship with someone, usually long before they know enough about one another to see whether a relationship would work, so to some extent the trick is getting into the first box more often. I find that flirting a lot helps!

Also, and this might help with the last question as well, pursuing casual things, before you've made a significant emotional investment, can open the field somewhat, and allow you to feel more relaxed about the whole thing when you find there's someone you're interested in quite seriously.

[spindr.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I've only met you once, but I've talked to you quite a bit over the years. Feel free to disregard my ramblings.

I can't think of anything wrong with you (apart from an unhealthy interest in mapping, natch), but in my experience, that doesn't mean anything in terms of coupling up; some of the genuinely nicest people I know are just *not* finding anyone and it baffles me, frankly.


One of the things I sometimes wonder is whether some of them are, for whatever reason - fear, shyness, "stuff" - socialise in a totally non sexual way. Erm, I've struggled to find the right way to put that and haven't succeeded...I mean that often there are subtle ways of socialising that, whilst not indicating interest, indicate not disinterest, or the possibility that if someone good came a long there could be interest.
Of course, I don't mean turning up with a plate of sandwiches, giggling and askign the room at large if they want some of your lovely baps (although that would be marvellous!); maybe I just mean having a very subtle undercurrent of flirtyness sometimes. Oh, I'm going to stop. I can't describe it, but I can often tell when it's missing iyswim. It's not nec person-targted, so if you know someone categorically doesn't fancy you, you can still observe the attitude.

Oh, who'd have thought I communicate for a living? I give up!

But, ooh, I'd have thought that if you're crap at rejection getting used it in bulk via a dating thingy would be good; water off a duck's back after a while....and then, bingo, the no-rejection comes. I think these sites give you athick skin fast!

[grim-tim.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'd assumed this post was filtered. Oops.

[drtinuviel.livejournal.com]

big hugs to you (in a condescending way), if i was with you i would bake some (egg free cake), and cook a nice dinner and share some good wine to talk it through.
As a, mostly, perpetually single girl of around the same age as you i know how lonely things can get. I doubt that there is anything wrong with you, and from my own experience if you start thinking that way it is rather self destructive. It is probably that there is something wrong with the people you are meeting, or perhaps a better way to put it would be that there is something not quite right with them in terms of their compatibility with you.
I don't think going into hiding is the right thing to do, in fact it would make you miserable, but do the things that you enjoy doing maybe you will find someone who likes the same things as you doing that. It never hurts to go out and try new things, but don't lose track of the friends you have that care for you either. Only you can decided if you want to deal with rejection or not, the unfulfilled attraction is difficult, and it can be even more difficult to deal with rejection when you have built an attachment to another person that you think is mutual, but I would rather have that bubbly feeling with the rejection than hide from the world.

I could very easily ask the same question of what is wrong with me being very nearly 31 and hopelessly single, but the answers i would give myself wouldn't help me much and i think right now really wouldn't help me much. I think with relationships it is more a case of being lucky enough to meet someone compatible at the right time of your life and their life. One thing i'm certain of is that i would rather be single than in a bad relationship. I know what i have said isn't really helpful, but it is normal for humans to feel alone and isolated even when they have family and friends who would do their best to prevent that. You sound pretty low at the moment, but you are doing a very positive thing talking about it, just pleas don't let yourself get to the point where you isolate yourself.

lots of hugs and chocolate cake, don't forget the wine

take care
T

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

*confused* mysterious deleted comment? (lj comment notifications aren't working for me, so if you made one i didn't see what it said). post is locked against my immediate family.

[annie-lyne.livejournal.com]

OKCupid has been good to me. I met my current girlfriend through that.

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

"what am I doing wrong" is probably a better way of putting it.

I tend to get romantically interested in people I already know quite well, which would work against getting together with such people. I find consciously flirting really hard, and I'm not sure that it's not been counterproductive when I have tried it. But keeping in this pattern isn't going to help loosen me up, unfortunately.

Your last point makes a good deal of sense, but by the time I dare even broach the question I am already far too emotionally involved for casualness to work. Maybe this puts people off.

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

Me lacking the mysterious unexplainable flirtiness sheen would explain a lot. Where can I obtain a spray-can of the stuff?

Dating websites seriously scare me. I would be seriously traumatised by the bulk rejection! I suspect speed dating would make me cry for a decade.

[psych0naut.livejournal.com]

I have nothing particularly helpful to say, but because I suffer from much the same malady I am keenly interested to read the suggestions you receive. (For what it's worth, you don't seem to me to have any particular behavioural or social problems, and I find it hard to believe that people don't find you physically attractive. Girls with freckles are cute, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so. :) ) I could probably offer some more analysis/commiseration on the general topic of rejection, sensitivity thereto, avoidance thereof, and dealing therewith, though it's not something I feel particularly comfortable discussing in public. If you're interested let me know and we can talk about it over coffee or something.

[firinel.livejournal.com]

For what my opinion is worth, in the far past when such opinions were first formed, I read what I now assume was shyness and awkwardness as aloof disinterest in pretty much all of humankind and/or a general preference for computers, books and other activities involving aloneness.

Unfortunately, I've absolutely no advice as to how you might remedy that. I've also never seen you flirt, so can't say whether it's had the adverse affect or not. (Or have I seen you flirt and just completely failed to pick up that that's what you were doing?)

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was really painfully shy back then, far more so than today (you know - excluding my family - you and plexq have known me longer than anyone else on my flist) - I had gender issues that needed sorting out before anything else. Since I've sorted that out the general social shyness is going away. I guess other shyness has also been lessening - I mean - I have actually asked people out now, at least.

[tearsofzorro.livejournal.com]

I'm also one of these mostly perpetually single people (although, if I remember correctly, you have a weird/tenuous connection with my first gf), but there's one thing that I've found to be true, once you're in a relationship, more possibilities open up. I don't get it myself, but in my recent persuit of Cute Redhead Nerdgirl (someone from Toastmasters) I found that once I thought I might get to the point of asking her out (although I've not seen her since *grumble*) I found myself getting attention from two separate people that very weekend.

Unfortunately, it's analogous to the work experience paradox ("How can I get experience in the field if all employers want experience in the field?") but I think it's about having some signal of "I'm attractive to somebody" that kickstarts everyone else into looking at you with a view of "Oh, she's attractive to somebody".

Anyway, I know where you're coming from... good luck.

[firinel.livejournal.com]

I've thought about that too, when I added you to lj, that you've known me so long. More recently I thought about how.. odd it must be for you to be in touch with plexq now, what with how much he's changed, too. In some ways it's certainly very odd, time.

I think because of the need to sort out other issues first, it's a bit like a "late bloomer" sort of thing, but it's not so much that you're "late" as it is that you're just starting out when most of us had our teens to get turned downed and crushed and have reached this age with that experience under our belt. So, I know it seems trite and is but cold comfort, but I am quite sure things will eventually work out for you.

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

[hmm, i wonder who do you mean? i was unaware of any link between you and anyone i may have had tenuous connections with]

Yeah. I can appreciate that analogy. Some people seem to have only relatively short gaps between relationships; other people remain perpetually single-but-looking. (I exclude people who are single through choice from this analysis). I wouldn't want to think that this is because the people in set A are any better. But it's a very easy thing to believe.

[tearsofzorro.livejournal.com]

(The link would be... if I remember correctly, someone who lived with a direct relative of yours when she was doing her undergrad in DeMontford - at least I think it was your nick on IRC that she mentioned, 'twas about 2001 when she mentioned it to me)

Anywho, if you want to reframe the difference between the set A people and the set B people, you can just say that the people in set A have more practice. The main thing I was thinking of was confidence - it's like another little trick we have to do in general society, we need to walk around with an air of "There's nothing wrong with me" because the moment you wander around thinking "There's something wrong with me" people pick up on it, and begin to wonder what's wrong. So, to me, it seems to be mostly a trick of walking around with an "approved" mark on your appearance to the outside world.

Does that make any sense?

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

It was certainly interesting meeting up with plexq last year after not having seen each other in something like 9 years.

The problem is, my peer group have that experience, and I don't. I don't see a way round that, short of [improbable fantasy]. Am I getting that experience from my large serving of fail, it it helping me? I don't know. I don't have enough emotional distance to evaluate how badly I misread previous situations.

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

[ah. my sibling did indeed live with the person I think you are referring to at DMU but I think I met her about once or twice during that time, so i didn't know that]

It does. Confidence. If you can fake that then you've nothing to feel nervous about.

[grim-tim.livejournal.com]

Yes. A very long mysterious deleted comment. *sigh*

[abigailb.livejournal.com]

but, but you have a ferret! you cannot be lonely with a ferret.

it is ok for girls to say "your freckles are nice" at me. that happens. but they never seem to say "nice freckles. wanna fuck?" though, which would be a more appropriate thing to say. i probably am not hanging around with enough freckles-liking girls.

what time are you expecting to be at the pembury tomorrow? maybe we could talk then.

[firinel.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it's confidence per say. I think I talked a good game before, when you first knew me, but in retrospect, I don't think I was a particularly attractive person because I was mostly noise. I think people can tell through fakes, if people are uncomfortable with their own selves.

Once I've gotten more comfortable with myself, which seems to involve not precisely faking it, but being what others find to be more realistic (example: not going "oh woe, I suck at life', but instead 'well, I've anger issues I need to work on, how can I do that?') and a bit upbeat. Interestingly, when I reached the point where I gave up on particularly finding someone(s), and instead focused on bettering myself and really being okay with myself as is too (I know they seem counter-intuitive, not quite though) I found several rather lovely someones.

[blue-mai.livejournal.com]

i've only met you a few times in the pub, and you seem alright to me.
but since you're looking for clues... if anything, you're quite intimidating at first, you seem like you might be quite stern and not appreciate people flirting with you. also, you don't have an obvious 'status' that says "i am single and looking" (that's alright though - that is often received ambiguously with lechery), nor "this commonly-defined sexuality is part of my public persona feel free to interact with it" what i mean by this is you're fairly inscrutable on first impressions. you aren't obviously straight or gay or whatever, nor transmit sexuality vibes generally, which is no bad thing at all, but probably has an influence on how comfortable people feel flirting with you. sometimes people completely ignore lack-of-sexuality-signal (even if you're trying very hard) but i think you don't put yourself in those situations.
i don't know if what you're after is exclusively a proper romantic relationship, or whether you want to act on feeling horny on a friday night. i think people probably are interested in you (i don't know specific people but you are attractive), but in terms of proper romantic relationships, luck really is a major factor. like me you tend to go for people you already know, so the pool is small (and remains so unless you want to go and meet new people and socialise like crazy - but then how do you spend the time getting to know them and then fancy them...) and then they might not be available, or not really looking etc. if you want to get some casual practice in, that's much easier to solve but you're probably hanging out in the wrong places (not enough clubbing with horny/drunk people) .
are you meeting enough new people for opportunities to arise? or even, are you doing enough new things with the people you already know?
the obviously-sexual-being thing is tricky if it doesn't come naturally. perhaps you need to become master of the ambiguous suggestion (that might be innocuous but is enough to raise the possibility of you being sexually/romantically available), y'know the way of asking someone if you can buy them a drink, or telling them that they look good, without being a blatant chat-up line, but you might mean something by it. or if that's too difficult - well even telling someone you fancy someone else (like off the telly) tells them that you are interested. it's hard to explain, you need (some) people to see you in a certain sexual light. or you could start a witty and fabulous comic, gain legions of adoring fans, and become powerfully desirable...

if it's bothering you it really wouldn't be better to just go and hide.
rejection is hard but much less so if you start to test the waters before you are totally committed to the idea yourself. this may land you sticky situations with people you later decide you don't really fancy, however.
(i am probably not telling you anything you don't already know here so i'll stop)