abigailbrady | (no subject)

Entry tags:

introspection,
life

(no subject)

so. i am 29 this year. compared to where i was 10 years ago, i have changed a lot. i am a fully functioning adult human being with a job and a flat and friends and everything. this is good.

i have not ever been in a relationship/dated anyone. as an abstract concept this doesn't particularly upset me. i am, as noted above, a self-sufficient independent person. i can appreciate the argument that having had no relationships is better than having had bad ones. and y'know, if that was the end of the matter i don't think i'd be unhappy. but it's not.

because every so often someone makes the mistake of being nice to me. and i get painfully infatuated. and i then get rejected. and then i feel like shit for a few months, and then it happens again with someone else. i would like this to stop happening. if it could stop happening by someone actually liking me for a change this would be nice. it doesn't seem very likely though, does it?

people tell me they have no idea why people aren't interested in me, but that they are sure it is just coincidence. i don't believe that. there are clearly influencing factors. i am very worried that i'm missing huge chunks of appropriate human behaviour in my socialisation (i ought to have learned all this in my late teens/early 20s, when i was otherwise occupied), and this is just an area of life which will remain forever closed to me. this idea upsets me, because what little of it i have experienced i liked. i would like to have hope, but hope has caused pain.

i am left confused and upset.

so

what is wrong with me?
are people not interested in me because they assume i am happily single?
are people not interested in me because they assume there must be something wrong with me?
are in fact people interested in me and i am not noticing it? (note: if so please tell me)
should i make effort to meet more new people?
wouldn't it be better just to go and hide?
am i just hanging out in the wrong social circle to meet people who might be interested in me?
given how bad i am at dealing with rejection anyway, wouldn't it be a really terrible idea for me to put myself in a situation with even more potential for that?

in conclusion: argh. answers, suggestions and proposals welcome.

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Yeah. This is not normal and it is getting in the way. I ought to have got this out of my system a long time ago and it demonstrates a certain lack of emotional maturity. But what can I do? Getting rid of protective shell and getting rejected by a broader selection of people at an earlier stage may be way to inure myself to it, but I'm terrified this will end up with me even more of a mess than I am at present.

I find consciously flirting really hard, and I'm not sure that it's not been counterproductive when I have tried it.
*nods* I think setting out with an aim of "I'm going to flirt with this person" doesn't work per se. Things that do work:-

Ask people lots of questions about themselves. Obviously this comes across better if you're genuinely interested in what they have to say, but it's quite a good way of getting into deep and meaningfuls without having to actually do much of the talking, which is handy if you're shy.

Smile whenever you catch someone's eye - do this with everyone, as it makes you seem open and friendlier, and in general will actually put you in a better mood as well.

Think about sex a lot. You ask downthread about how people transmit sexual vibes; I can't be certain about this, but I think that for me it's just that I'm pretty much perpetually horny, hence pheremones do half the work for me before I even start chatting someone up!

Good luck!

I still find it terribly difficult, whatever the rationalisation. I will however ponder the matter.

*nod*

as

shermarama noted, I have the talking to people about their interests and actually being interested down pretty well, I think. smiling would be easier if I were happier. people on the street who randomly tell me to smile annoy me.

i don't exactly have a big sex drive, and am kind of 'green' anyhow. so that doesn't come naturally to me. this is not to say i don't enjoy it or that i am not open to possibilities. maybe with experience that would be less of a problem.

No, I'm not sure "more rejection" is the way to go either.

When you say you get rejected by your objects of infatuation, what do you mean? Do you mean that you approach them and they turn you down, or something else? If you do nothing, does the infatuation eventually go away on its own?

avoiding talking about specifics, generally, yes. i will wait too long hoping it will go away, but it won't and then allowing myself to think about it as genuine possibility makes it worse. Leaving it alone will fade away eventually but it is prone to reignition.

ummm.... if you decide you want to find this hypothetical girl, you need to increase your chances by going to places where such girls are rumoured to exist. if you decide you don't like those places, then you have to accept your chances are reduced (but still exist) if you want, for instance, to just hang out at the Pembury, it is not widely famed for being the place where available girls pick up available girls with cute freckles... but you do still meet new people there. so it's possible. if i was looking where would i go? not that i've made much effort to hunt out the london ladies, but one place springs to mind - Smack Club. it moves around, last i went it was at egg, i think it was end of 2006 so not really sure what it's up to now. but you arrive and it's a bit like - where are all these women usually? but it's not intimidatingly dyke. just a very very high proportion of women. something less overtly sexual - the Dolly Rockers events are a really good atmosphere, friendly, i would go there if i was looking. again, i don't keep up. but they do retro DJ and live music nights and all-dayers. all-dayers are nice - less pressure and usually more areas to just chat with people.
i don't do chatting up well either - i like to just converse.
i need to work but i intend to reply to other stuff below.

These are useful suggestions and I will look into them.

(I can of course come up with any number of excuses why I cannot possibly go to such places on my own without knowing anyone likely to be there etc etc. But this is just excuse-making as I have done that before.)

I'm not quite sure which of my many questions the "yes" is in answer to there. Where does the rejection come in?

I wonder (this is of course complete speculation and may be entirely wrong) whether part of what makes the infatuation last so long is that part of your mind sees it as being necessary for a relationship to develop.

yes is the answer to "Do you mean that you approach them and they turn you down".

what happens may be summarised as:

abi is hiding in her shell.
person comes along, thinks "ah, why is the abi hiding in a shell? that is so sad. i will try to get her out of her shell."
abi thinks "ah, person likes me. yay"
person says "no, no, not like that!"
abi thinks "tsk. well, why did you think i was hiding in the shell, eh?"

also, Dolly Rockers is not sexually defined anything, but i don't actually feel particularly comfortable chatting people up at gay clubs, i think i get quite self-conscious and sometimes my spikes go up. dolly rockers (when i went) had people dressed up for fun and generally music orientated. this is good. i think i've just defeated my own advice there ...

Well, since I don't feel comfortable chatting people up anywhere, I might as well do it at a place where there is some hope of success.

This is very true. I wonder how much it narrows the pool. I daresay more than people would admit.

At this point I would rather have had several not very good relationships because at least then that's something to build on. Which is probably not a good thought to have.

Edited 2008-03-18 13:27 (UTC)

There are dating sites which cater to transgendered people (and to people of any gender status who are happy to date them). Perhaps these are worth investigating, as you can be reasonably sure that no one who contacts you through such a site is going to be turned off by any gender issues. I've visited such sites but haven't otherwise used them myself so I can't say if they, or which of them, are any good (as in, are likely to get you in touch with potential romantic partners).

Hm, yeah, I can see why that can be a bit scary — I don't mean for you, but for the person making overtures of friendship. It could be that you're just being too full-on too fast, and so potentials never get to develop into actuals because you've scared them off.

(Again, this is all speculation because I barely know you and have never seen you IRL; please feel free to tell me if I'm talking rubbish and not being helpful.)

that is somewhat time-compressed. i don't know how it seems to the other people.

(we ought to fix that, you know)

Frankly, eep! People specifically interested in trans people (a) scary, (b) likely to be looking for something I cannot provide anyway.

Not necessarily. Some people interested in trans people are certainly just looking for sexual titillation (not that that's necessarily a bad thing), but others are just as sincere about pursuing a meaningful, romantic relationship as anyone. Personally I'd be just as happy dating a transgendered female as a non-transgendered one; I don't see this (and hope a potential partner wouldn't see this) as a scary aberration so much as simple impartiality about what is, or used to be, between their legs. While I am attracted exclusively to females, I'm infinitely more interested in their personality and, as far as physical attributes go, their face, then in their genitals and sex chromosomes.

Yes, you cannot be lonely with a ferret, but keep in mind that the ferret is a relatively recent arrival in my life. Also, while the ferret keeps me company and helps me meet new people, but hasn't made finding a girlfriend any easier. Even if a stunningly attractive girl starts chatting to you as a result of seeing your ferret, you still need to work up the courage to convey your interest in her and/or ask her out, and later to establish some sort of relationship with her that isn't based soley on discussion of the ferret. (On the other hand, "Nice ferret; wanna fuck?" would be a much-welcome shortcut at times. :) )

You talk about withdrawing and hiding and giving up; keep in mind who you're talking to: I am the undisputed king of withdrawing and hiding and giving up. I have had a paper published in an internationally distributed, peer-reviewed scientific journal setting out my reasons for withdrawing, hiding, and giving up. I have essentially announced to the whole world that I am never going to have a girlfriend, and that I'm not even going to bother trying any more. Doing so in such a humorous and public way has probably made the decision more bearable, but it doesn't make me feel any less lonely.

Anyway, I'm on a training course at Moorgate today until 17:00, after which I will be heading directly to the Pembury (sans ferret). Hope to see you there.

Sorry - I could possibly be repeating stuff here, but there are too many comments for me to read all of them thoroughly before answering.

To answer the questions in order...

what is wrong with me?

Absolutely nothing. Let the other people be wrong ;)

are people not interested in me because they assume i am happily single?

In my experience, this is highly unlikely - my experience can be generalised by stating that it's when I'm not looking that I've tended to have people interested in me. I don't know if this is a reflection of not consciously looking and so not worrying or what. It's hard to judge as there's no truly neutral position to look from.

are people not interested in me because they assume there must be something wrong with me?

1) Err, have you met Aden? He's the most wrong person I've ever met, and I married him! Something being "wrong" doesn't preclude interest.

And more importantly:
2) I don't know of anything wrong with you, nor would assume that anything is! It doesn't work like that. In fact, I think the only people that might garner that attitude would be embodiment of a Disney character - picture book perfect looks (ie: made of plastic), not a bad thought in the world (nor an original one, for that matter) and the most calm-tempered, "always kind to children and animals" type of do-gooder that would make sane people want to throw up. When you start getting bluebirds sitting around your bedroom window waking you up in the morning with a saccharine sweet harmony in time for you to make waffles for the entire block, you can start worrying that people assume there's something "wrong" :) Personally, I think you'd need a lobotomy or 10 to reach that stage, so you should be safe!

are in fact people interested in me and i am not noticing it? (note: if so please tell me)

Distinctly possible. It's the whole being flirt-blind thing.

should i make effort to meet more new people?

Yes, always - it keeps life interesting, and increases the chances of finding someone statistically at least!

wouldn't it be better just to go and hide?

Hiding never helps. That statistically decreases your chances for a start! (Also: this doesn't apply to me, as of course it's perfectly logical when I do it... ;P Or in other words: I know I should take my own advice...!)

am i just hanging out in the wrong social circle to meet people who might be interested in me?

Frankly, I doubt it! (I shall put a few observations below on that one...)

given how bad i am at dealing with rejection anyway, wouldn't it be a really terrible idea for me to put myself in a situation with even more potential for that?

There's a theory along the lines of exposing yourself to rejection teaching you to accept it better. I don't know that I agree with it in practice, though! I guess it depends on the situation - in a manner of speaking, pick your fights! Things like this have an element of risk - with out the attempt there's little/no hope of a payoff, but there are times when the risk isn't worth it. (note: all theoretical, really, as I have no idea what the situation you speak of is!)

(cont. in part 2...)

(Last week, we left our intrepid heroes dangling from the edge of a cliff at the end of a rapidly fraying rope: How will they get out of this one??)

Other comments:
- I went through my teenage years in my early 20s. I sometimes catch myself learning social stuff now that most people go throug hat 13. You're not the only one to have gone through the lack-of-socialisation thing.

- I know what you mean with the infatuation/rejection cycle. I have a tendency to do that myself. I have a way to get around it (coincidentally I've been talking with a friend recently about it and he pointed out that it's a really bad way to be dealing with it...) which I am finding isn't quite so important these days. It's also a different situation so probably wouldn't work in your situation. (ie: I find guys are a bit easier to interpret than girls. Yes, I know that's a generalisation.)

- To give you an example: I spent a large part of my highschool years being ignored by guys. This got to the extent that I spent about a year secretly convinced that I must be gay or something and everyone else could see this but I couldn't and hence no one was interested in me. Oh, the gaping holes in that argument... (I guess the fact that I could appreciate females as potentially attractive even though I hadn't met one of the small minority I am "interested" in didn't help, but nonetheless!)

...please excuse the occasional silly comment and do not interpret it as me trivialising your thoughts/opinions - I find lightening humour to be helpful to getting the underlying point acroos :) And I hope I have made you smile at least once!

You clearly win.

I will be there.

please don't think you need to fix anything. i guess it's more that i/we are trying to be helpful and give you information - with the idea that you can make decisions about what you want, what you could do to maximise the chances of what you want happening, and whether you feel comfortable doing them. it's a balance. but things are worth trying out, in my opinion, before you say "i won't be any good at that".
being able to converse properly is very very good. so is doing things where you meet people (mapping?).
i had worked out by now that you are gay - but that was much easier once i started reading your LJ. my gaydar is rather broken anyway, but i'm not sure that it matters particularly if you 'identify' as one persuasion or another, unless you feel the need to personally. women are much less bothered about being approached by the wrong gender for them and vice-versa people are less worried about approaching women who may or may not interested in their gender. it used to frustrate me that people tended to assume i was straight at a gay events, but i'm sure writing I AM A DYKE across my chest wouldn't have made me any happier. the i-am-a-sexual-being thing is i think the most important. which is different from trying to look sexually attractive (i'm guessing that you aren't inclined to do that).
i can't deal personally, with contriving these things, and i also don't deal well with contriving a social life. i do deal well with doing what i want when i want regardless of whether i have company to do it. that does ocassionally mean going clubbing on the spur of the moment by myself. it means ocassionally over-dressing for no good reason. i don't know if it makes me anymore attractive to do these things, but i know i feel more attractive to be doing something just because i enjoy it. perhaps it's an element of sensuality (perhaps if you display sensitivity to sensuality it's akin to displaying sexual-beingness). anyway, it's commonly held that if you feel attractive, you are. so...

note: all theoretical, really, as I have no idea what the situation you speak of is!)

situation hypothetical, referring to previous question.

- it ought to be comforting to know that other people have felt like this and gotten over it. i'll have to work on that.

- hmm.

I'm not sure what I think at the moment, which is I guess why I'm asking people. But it's gone on far too long.

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