abigailbrady | (no subject)

Entry tags:

introspection,
life

(no subject)

so. i am 29 this year. compared to where i was 10 years ago, i have changed a lot. i am a fully functioning adult human being with a job and a flat and friends and everything. this is good.

i have not ever been in a relationship/dated anyone. as an abstract concept this doesn't particularly upset me. i am, as noted above, a self-sufficient independent person. i can appreciate the argument that having had no relationships is better than having had bad ones. and y'know, if that was the end of the matter i don't think i'd be unhappy. but it's not.

because every so often someone makes the mistake of being nice to me. and i get painfully infatuated. and i then get rejected. and then i feel like shit for a few months, and then it happens again with someone else. i would like this to stop happening. if it could stop happening by someone actually liking me for a change this would be nice. it doesn't seem very likely though, does it?

people tell me they have no idea why people aren't interested in me, but that they are sure it is just coincidence. i don't believe that. there are clearly influencing factors. i am very worried that i'm missing huge chunks of appropriate human behaviour in my socialisation (i ought to have learned all this in my late teens/early 20s, when i was otherwise occupied), and this is just an area of life which will remain forever closed to me. this idea upsets me, because what little of it i have experienced i liked. i would like to have hope, but hope has caused pain.

i am left confused and upset.

so

what is wrong with me?
are people not interested in me because they assume i am happily single?
are people not interested in me because they assume there must be something wrong with me?
are in fact people interested in me and i am not noticing it? (note: if so please tell me)
should i make effort to meet more new people?
wouldn't it be better just to go and hide?
am i just hanging out in the wrong social circle to meet people who might be interested in me?
given how bad i am at dealing with rejection anyway, wouldn't it be a really terrible idea for me to put myself in a situation with even more potential for that?

in conclusion: argh. answers, suggestions and proposals welcome.

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I don't know you terribly well, but I can tell you about my early impressions of you: it took me a while to figure out what gender you were/identified as. Not everyone cares about gendering in a partner, but it is a prerequisite for many of them. It may have just been my cautiousness and unwillingness to leap to conclusions - perhaps others are quicker on the uptake. Also, it was a few times before I got your name down, which was a Clue.

Thank-you, this is useful feedback.

For reference: I am quite gay. I have been recently vaguely wondering whether identifying as bi would be helpful. Probably not, given the ratios of people I find attractive.

It is kind of hard to see myself in that impression of me. I am somewhat reserved, yes. It is hard shell of hardness which will protect me from the world. Vibes. Hmm. How do people transmit sexual vibes usually? It is not something I am aware of at all. The thing is, most of the time I am either (a) recovering from being rejected, and (b) recovered from being rejected and trying to avoid people in general who I might be attracted to. I've certainly not been looking the last couple of times I got interested in people.

I feel a bit like I've not met enough new people recently. I have not been out night-clubbing for ages, due in part to headaches (but also the last few times I didn't particularly enjoy it) - I need to fix that. But the idea of pulling someone in a nightclub is just an alien concept to me.

You do, however, speak sense, and I do need to fix my behaviour in that way. I just don't know if that's even possible.

It arrived!

Thanks. Most clear-headed advice.

That is interesting. I do seem to do this to some people sometimes. I guess being a fairly androgynous mtf lesbian does that. It happens rather randomly. I remember at a party once

fjm being terribly surprised that someone had used wrong pronoun on me. But it's not really something I can help.

I'm not sure I'm really qualified to give advice, but it might be an idea to sort of spread the word via your social network that you are looking for a partner (not necessarily 'on the pull', but more 'casually searching'). That way, people won't already assume that you already have a partner.

It might also be a good idea to let people know what kind of partner you want (as someone said before, you don't come across as definitely gay or straight). If you want a woman, bear in mind that many women are straight so this will affect your number of available partners. (However you may find that many straight women are willing to experiment).

Either way, don't give up. You're certain to find your perfect person, and you're doing exactly the right thing by socialising lots.

Well, hopefully this post counts as that! :)

This is a good point as to whether I trigger people's gaydars or not. I should ask people. There do seem to be an awful lot of bisexual (and indeed poly) people in my social circle at the moment, so finding people who are theoretically obtainable is not the hard part. (it'd maybe be nice to have a crush on someone absolutely unobtainable, because then I wouldn't need to worry about what to do with it, but this has not yet happened).

Edited 2008-03-17 23:37 (UTC)

Socialisation and the confidence that comes with it are a matter of practice, and that comes with a lot of mistakes. There are a great many people who detest me - many of whom are truly wonderful and often physically and spiritually beautiful people - and there is nothing I can do to go back and rework the first and second and third impressions I made on them.

Ultimately it is a numbers game: get out more - and never miss a weekend - see more people, network more, systematically seek out places and occasions and social circles that contain the people who interest you. A lot of it is simply being 'on the radar' for about 12-18 months, at which point people will sort-of-recognise you and feel at ease starting a conversation and begin deliberately including you in group activities.

And that's about it. I've used Aikido as a first-track socialisation course - a shared activity with an externally-imposed bond of common experience - and have gradually overcome a lack of social skills that wasn't just a zero score, it was an actively negative one. But, however off-putting or offensive I was, we always stepped back onto the mat and - most times - went for a pint afterward. I have very little meaningful social life from it - and, indeed, I have acquired the barrier of a large number of people who do not quite detest me but tolerate my company for the Aikido rather than the dubious pleasure of my company... Or what their out-of-date (but firmly fixed) impression of what my company is like.

Other pursuits have been a disappointment: but it only needed one to work. The lesson: seek similar communities with a strong common bond that isn't primarily social, and use them as a training-ground.

LJ provided the second- and third-track socialisation course, and it's working. Mostly. I note that the majority - all! - of my friends are somewhat out-of-mainstream but I suspect that is what I both want and need, rather than a warning that there is something 'wrong' with me.

But note this: I cultivate circles of friends - the Tuesday Borders set that now assembles in the Pembury, the London Goths, the Cambridge CUSFS axis, the Cambridge LGBT society, the Cambridge Ardgour Shakespeare set, the BSFA, the rump of Usenet uk.misc... Some are strongly-identified groups that tolerate me as an outsider and will never progress through an 'on-the-radar' period to genuine acceptance; some will, and have largely done so; and some groups are so weakly identified that everyone is to some extent an outsider and you have to work on one-to-one friendship development without the following wind of a favourable community.

There have been failures: I fear that I will never be truly welcome in Bermondsey (or parts of it) and a quick head-round-the-door at BU made it clear that they are a members-only group and strangers need not apply. There are others, and no, I'm not discussing them. There will be more failures - but, with time and practice, they will diminish in intensity.

I hope.

I bet that sounds calculating: it is. But I've built a social life from zero and a very low base of skills and confidence indeed, and it is only in the latter stages of success that I have made headway in the 'dating' stage. And had that failed, I would be seeking out and cultivating new groups far more intensively than I am today: as in scaling back the Aikido and putting four or five evenings a week into social development, and maybe working out in a gym and looking at cosmetic surgery. Had I continued seeing the oh-so-pointed rejection signals in female body language - or worse, the not-even-on-the-radar-as-male neutrality - I would've become even more systematic: behavioural therapy, a personal shopper, speed-dating classes and whoever or whatever teaches 'flirting', pick-ups, gait and positive body language.

Thankfully that has proven unnecessary. Most of it, anyway. But there's some serious calculation in that, and a sense of direction rather than baffled frustration, and I think that this is lacking in you. There's no point in being jealous of others who - apparently - have it easy and enjoyed a wonderful upbringing that handed them the things you want and lack. If it doesn't come easy, get it by hard work.

I can see that the nightclub timescale would be wrong for you - it's wrong for most people, unless it's a club you go to regularly where you've seen the person round before and are in a kind of familiar social space.

I was having a think and reading all these replies and I see the point about the defensive shell and taking a while to get to talk to people, but then something else struck me - once you are talking to people, you do actually properly talk to them, as in you're interested in what they're saying, obviously listening and taking it in and giving insight back and suchlike. I can think of some long-term-single people I know who don't really do that, who I suppose are used enough to their own company or something that although it's possible to have something that sounds like a normal conversation with them, you're kind of aware that it's more like discussing a section of their internal topic list than a real conversation. Which is also a useful social thing to be able to resort to and all but it's not as good as the real deal, is it? So, actually being interested in people is an important first advantage that you have, and bear that in mind, I reckon, because that sort of genuine interaction is a good rung on the ladder that can lead to other sorts of interesting interaction. Ahem.

Also, I second the idea of marshalling some handily offhand ways of introducing the concept of you as sexual being, be they ever so low-key and third-party - referring to someone's attractiveness, even if you say that you find so-an-so unattractive - this leaves an opportunity for anyone minded that way to be thinking 'so what sort of person does she find attractive, and is it me, and how do I find out?' Fun fun fun.

I've really only just met you, but I can say in general that dating is unfortunately one of those things where success breeds success. If you've never been in a relationship, though, you probably lack a lot of attitudes that would make your dating chances a lot better: the deep confidence that you are attractive to at least a subset of people, the first-hand understanding of how romantic interactions work (and how they are subtly different from just liking someone and being attracted to them).

Also, people do have a certain expectation of how much relationship experience someone "should" have had by a certain life stage. They may not consciously hold the position that someone in their late 20s or early 30s with no relationship experience must have something wrong with them, but that can be a bias. Plus of course the older you get the greater the proportion of your social circle are already permanently coupled. I have definitely observed that a lot of people who are perfectly attractive and lovely have an unfairly hard time just because they were late joining the dating bandwagon.

I am no expert, but I suspect the only way to increase your chances of finding a partner is to expand your social circle in general. You need a certain critical mass of friends who will introduce you to more new people before you find someone you click with on a romantic level. It seems likely that putting yourself out there by expressing interest in people will let you project more of an aura of being available and potentially interested in romantic approaches.

Can you convince yourself that someone not wanting a romantic relationship with you doesn't mean they find you repulsive? Indeed, it's perfectly possible to stay friends with someone after discovering unrequited attraction. I know that's far easier to say than to actually get to that point psychologically, but pretty much all situations with the potential for starting relationships are also situations with the potential for being rejected, by definition.

I hope this isn't totally unhelpful!

I think you are the first person to have noted that behaviour in me, but yes, I do do that. And it comes naturally which is good.

I do try to make my sexuality apparent at people, but probably not early enough.

I am just about exhausted from all the social activies I'm doing at the moment, and throwing money at problem isn't an option. I'm fucked, really.

This all makes sense.

Some background: I moved to London in July 2006. I knew pretty much nobody down here (a friend of mine who moved down to London around the same time was on the other side entirely), and was rather hermit-like at first, this continued until some lj-friends persuaded me to start going to Pembury. Since then I have met lots of new people (and this process is still kind of continuing as different people cycle through). I'm actually not sure what would happen if someone approached me today. I would probably withdraw because right now I'm in the not-wanting-to-get-hurt-again stage.

Remaining friends is important, yes. Doubly so if people were your friends already. Doing this is the trick. I worry that people think I was all along only interested in them as potential romantic partner, and not friend. And I'm worried that that might be true. Nonsense, of course.

And yes, meeting people in nightclubs is weird. I mean, I've met several people who became good friends of mine in a nightclub, but that was a matter of going to this extremely small nightclub month after month and getting to know people. Leicester's small enough that can happen. I don't think London is.

Providing biographical details is not worse than writing a CV; it's just different, and this may be the source of your trepidation. In a CV your goal is to paint yourself, and particularly your achievements, in the best possible light so as to attract potential employers. Self-aggrandisement is pretty much expected, and discussing your faults and failures is a no-no. Your goal is to secure an economic relationship by selling yourself to the employer. A dating profile is much different. Here you are not looking to win over a potential source of income by boasting about your achievements and glossing over your faults; you are looking for a mutually compatible personal relationship, and therefore need to give an honest and open accounting of yourself, warts and all. You also need to give at least a vague description of the sort of partner you are looking for. A good dating site, such as OkCupid, will guide you through this process by posing some biographical essay questions for you. All you need to do is to answer them truthfully, without concern about how people in general may view your answers. Remember, you are not trying to impress people in general; you are trying to find someone who happens to share your interests, find your personality intriguing, and accept your faults. Unless you want to deal with rejection after people have already gone through the trouble of contacting you, the only way of doing this is to be open about your interests, personality, and faults in your profile. Better to be simply and silently passed over by people browsing profiles than explicitly rejected by someone who contacted you, or even went on a date with you, only for them to find out that you weren't what they were looking for in the first place.

It's not something you can help and, more to the point, if it really bothered someone, then They're Wrong For You anyways.

The problem is I have so little self-worth that an "honest and open accounting of myself" isn't likely to be accurate or even postable, and if it's accurate then it will feel like I am self-aggrandising.

I prefer having met people in real life.

Me lacking the mysterious unexplainable flirtiness sheen would explain a lot. Where can I obtain a spray-can of the stuff?

It's available, but trust me, you don't want it. See the first episode of Bottom, "Smells".

i was thinking more season 2 episode 16 of buffy.

i do give up from time to time and then is usually when i do find lovely someones except i am missing the part where they find me, as well.

unless the girl happens to be exceptionally forthright i think the freckles thing is a 2 or 3-stage tender process. they say "your freckles are nice", you say something encouraging, a couple of exchanges down the line one of you says "wanna fuck?"... people less likely to say "wanna fuck?" if they think you might get cross or something.

1. YOUR FRECKLES ARE NICE
2. ???
3. ~~PROFIT~~SEXORING

i don't seem to manage the "???" part.

Self-worth doesn't enter into it. In a dating profile, you describe yourself, not how you feel about yourself. You talk about the things you do in your spare time, and in your work time (if you consider your work to be enjoyable and/or a big part of your life); the kind of things you find funny or interesting; your favourite food, movies, music, and activities; your important life experiences; etc. How to feel about these things should be left up to the person reading the profile, not the one writing it.

because every so often someone makes the mistake of being nice to me. and i get painfully infatuated. and i then get rejected. and then i feel like shit for a few months, and then it happens again with someone else.

I'm wondering if this is actually the root of the problem. Neither painful infatuation nor feeling like shit are exactly great frames of mind to be in for finding a relationship — and repeated cycles of painful infatuation aren't "normal", if there is such a thing, so perhaps this is what you're doing differently to other people. (I do know what you mean though; it happened to me a few years ago, completely out of the blue, and it was really shocking and weird and uncomfortable and pointless and completely uncontrollable. Once was enough thankyouverymuch.) Having said that, I don't know how to make it not happen, so this comment is perhaps also pointless.

well, depending on persistence of this hypothetical girl - even not growling "GRRRR!" at her might be enough. ie. not being actively offputting. something actively encouraging like ... saying thanks and smiling? starting a conversation? is probably better though.

Now, where can I find this hypothetical girl?

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